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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  August 23, 2011 12:00am-1:00am EDT

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word@msnbc.com and you can follow my tweets at m harrisperry. the rachel maddow show is up next. >> good evening. you could have called it sister citizen exclamation point and it would have been on the same shelf as rick perry's book. >> oh, well. >> sub titles are the death of these things. thank you, melissa, good to see you. thanks to you at home. this hour the situation in libya continues to unfold. things are not resolved conclusively, although it appears that 42 years of moammar gadhafi's dictatorship may be coming to an end, as in right now, as in this evening. former cbs evening news anchor dan rather will be with us this hour, but first to richard engel who's been covering the uprising since the very beginning, and he joins us tonight from the central square in the libyan
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capital city of tripoli, the stronghold, geographic heart for gadhafi loyalists since the beginning of the revolution, richard, what's the scene tonight? >> good evening, rachel, you can probably hear that celebrations are going on in green square. this is the square, the center of tripoli, it was the center of gadhafi's personality. i remember coming here and a group of rebels have just arrived. if you can zoom in over my shoulder, you can see this is a group of rebels, they are following that car which has the fighters inside, and the rest are the people from the neighborhoods that have come out into the streets, out into the square, to express their support and appreciation for what the rebels have done. they're cheering saying that the blood of the martyrs will not be forgotten. it's an amazing turn of events what's happened over the last 24 hours or so. this was the center of gadhafi's
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power base, now clearly in the hands of the rebels. they've already changed the name of this square. it used to be called green square, now they are calling it martyr square. now, there is still an element of danger, still something of a war zone in tripoli. that's because gadhafi's loyalists, and i say loyalists because we're not sure if gadhafi himself is there, but at least gadhafi's loyalists remain inside gadhafi's compound. now, gadhafi's compound is nothing like the white house or another presidential compound, gadhafi lived on a military base and his forces inside that base are defending it, they are making a final stand, and they were firing rockets and mortars out of that base today and firing them into civilian areas. that's one reason why we haven't seen huge crowds here in green square or as it's called now martyr square, but they are still coming out and the people in this square, the rebels are convinced their next step has to
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be an assault on gadhafi's compound to finish his last hold on power in tripoli and across the country. rachel? >> thank you, richard. i talk to richard engel far too frequently when there's gunfire that near him. richard engel reporting from what used to be called green square but has been renamed martyr square by the anti-gadhafi forces that have taken over that country and that city. in terms of symbols of the gadhafi regime you'll see the color green referenced over and over again and things called green by the gadhafi regime are among the first things to go as gadhafi is ousted from power, as richard just described and as you can see here. the aforementioned green square in the capital of tripoli had been renamed martyr square. you can see on google maps, the white writing where we put the
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label, that happened hours after rebels took control of the capital. do not adjust your screen, it's just a green flag. so in addition to renaming green's square in tripoli, they are also replacing that all-green flag with this, the pre-gadhafi flag that you have been seeing in the news footage out of libya in this revolution. so long green square, so long green flag. this is libyan state-run television. for months they have been broadcasting moammar gadhafi's almost daily speeches against the forces who have been rising up against him. in this instance, what you see here, yes, that is one of their news anchors brandishing a gun on television warning the rebels they will never win and they will never take control of that state-run television station. libyan state-run television is now effectively gone. this was the last thing that
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they were showing before they went off the air. it is sort of a libyan-version of "the view." it's a program about women's issues, then it went black. it was later replaced by this, a pro-rebel news network based in qatar, a network that was in the process of interviewing a rebel who claimed to be calling into the station from a cell phone from inside the libyan state tv building. part of what has happened in libya over the last 24 hours has been the exulting you would expect from not just ordinary libyan citizens happy for the toppling of the dictatorship in their country but also from the fighters engaged in the uprising against the militaryized state for five months now. >> i don't know how to express myself, but i can say to everybody who's free in the world, libya is free finally, and she's back after 42 years of kidnapping. >> do you know where gadhafi is now, do you care where he is?
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>> i don't care where he is. i want to know where he is, already i feel free. this is the most important thing. >> 25 years now, my last now. freedom, man, thank you. >> so the happiness you see and hear being expressed by rebel forces there and supporters of the rebels there, for all the physical changes that have taken root, the situation is not resolved yet. we keep hearing that from everybody we're in contact with. even though rebel forces have taken control of much of libya's capital some forces loyal to gadhafi continue to put up a fight. bbc news reporter hayes experienced that firsthand today as he traveled with rebel forces into the heart of tripoli. watch what happens. >> here we are, here's a group of young men on the corner here.
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every time we go past, groups of young men celebrating, so far no signs of any fighting in the city, everything looks quiet. >> a rebel convoy is heading into the city. little do the young men know what fate lies ahead. up ahead, there are still signs of fighting. then suddenly we run straight into an ambush. i can see the muzzle flashes as an anti-aircraft gun opens fire in to the front of the convoy.
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we simply don't know how many of the young men traveling with us survived. >> even with the capital city now reportedly 90% controlled by rebel forces, the roughly 10% controlled by gadhafi loyalists means some scary stuff is going on tonight. this is a fight that does not seem to be over. despite reports moammar gadhafi's son was in custody, this shows him apparently still at large and apparently still defiant in a crowd of pro-gadhafi supporters. joining me live on the phone from zawiya is washington post thomas erdbreak. first can you describe
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what the situation is like in zawiya and what you've been able to see over the course of the evening? >> well, there's not much going on despite the national council arriving, that is the rebel council based in benghazi, which is about 1,000 miles to the east here. that's the first time they have come here in the vicinity of tripoli. >> in terms of the late reports that we've had, we have had reports earlier today that gadhafi's son was in rebel custody, that he had been arrested, that, in fact, a traitor among the ranks in the gadhafi loyalist military had turned him over to rebel forces. we are seeing footage that appears to be him this evening. have you heard anything about the voracity of these reports and what we are seeing tonight? >> yeah, i can confirm he's free. hi a talk with a high-level rebel commander today and he already told me earlier that saif was definitely not in the rebels' hands and he was criticizing the rebel political leaders for bringing out this news. he said if we would have had
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gadhafi in our hands, we would have paraded him through town and put him in libyan court instead of sending him to the international court in the hague, something that someone within that rebel council apparently said. >> i know that you spent much of the day with rebel forces in tripoli today, what happened to the group of rebels that you were with? >> well, while i was interviewing this commander and he was giving me a line that 90% of the city was in their hands, about five minutes later pro-gadhafi troops pulled up in front of the compound, opened fire with heavy machine guns and took the rebels by surprise. this is a rebel army, these are people who carry a machine gun in their hands and are wearing plastic flip-flops as they go to battle. so they were completely
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surprised by this well-targeted attack. even though nobody died, we have been caught up in the cross fire for almost two hours, and it just illustrates the situation here in tripoli. tripoli is not 90% in the hands of the rebels. i don't think there's anybody who is controlling tripoli at this point, and one thing is for sure, gadhafi's forces are fighting back and seems their efforts are increasing. >> in terms of gadhafi's forces and what you can tell about their remaining strength, do they seem to have withdrawn to hardened targets they are defending or are they mounting ambushes and setting up sniper positions and doing other things to stay on the offensive? >> definitely. i think what they are doing is have a pre-planned certain attacks, they have melted into society, not given up their weapons, something the rebels have been hoping for but organizes the attacks, actually forming their own rebel army now against the rebels that invaded tripoli. >> one last question, we showed footage a moment ago of a
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reporter on state television brandishing a gun on television saying state tv would never been taken. i understand you witnessed her arrest? >> well, i witnessed her, actually, being brought -- she was brought into a compound where they brought also journalists in to see her, now, this woman, the same woman brandishing that gun was there, and we could hear her scream "i am innocent," then we heard a loud man's voice saying, accusing her basically she was a traitor, and then afterwards we were not allowed to see her, but the rebel commander came out saying she was in good hands and sees the errors of her ways. >> just chilling. "washington post" reporter, thomas, thank you so much for your time tonight. i understand you've been very much in the cross fire, please, stay safe. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back with dan rather. woman: downloading music can be expensive.
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when the famous basketball player charles barkley said he was misquoted in his own autobiography, that was a funny moment in american culture. when rick perry says the same thing it is also funny, but in a different, this guy could be president sort of way with. that story is coming up. [ male announcer ] this...is the network -- a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want,
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whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. senator john mccain of arizona has had a twitter account for a really long time. he started tweeting in january 2009. john mccain was an early adopter. right at the top of his twitter feed you can see his tweets about libya, including a link to a statement he put out.
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with his friend senator lindsey graham. it congratulates other alternate countries involved in the support mission for the rebels in libya. but as for the u.s., senators mccain and graham say "reget the success was so long and coming due to the failure of the united states employ our full air power. one interesting thing about twitter is it can be a time machine. if you have the patience you can control down, down, down the page until you get to, say, two years ago this week when the same john mccain today criticizing president obama for not waging enough of a war on gadhafi, even as gadhafi appears to being overthrown. two years ago this week john mccain was tweeting about his late evening with colonel gadhafi in his ranch in libya. interesting meeting with an interesting man. the war does not knit neatly in politics, senator graham and mccain want to look like the most anti-gadhafi people around,
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in contrast with this wimpy president. but these there's the darn footage effectively cuddling up with gadhafi two summers ago in gadhafi's tent nonetheless. but it's not senator mccain and graham, this is a military intervention where america did not take the lead, in which there were no americans killed, but the u.s. either did or is about to, it seems, get what it wants. the republican-led house voted to de-fund the war. the vote was taken in a way sure to be toothless. the administration tried to get away with not calling it a war, the voices left, right, and center that denounced nato and lib as a kwaur mire have been seemingly proven wrong. today gadhafi himself is still unaccounted for. the question is not only how america assesses our role in what happened but how we chose our role in what happens next. joining us now, dan rather, mr.
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rather, it is very good to have you here, thank you for being here. >> great to be here on a night like tonight. what an exciting and inspirational time. this is a transforming year and a transformational decade. we had the arab spring and with -- with the extension in to the arab summer. and with syria and yeming still out there to perhaps extend to an arab winter. the echoes of this will reverberate through history for a very, very long time to come. >> i know you have personally interviewed moammar gadhafi three times. i'm sure it's hard to get into his head, but based on the conversations you've had, do you know what to expect from him at this point of extreme pressure in tripoli? >> the straight honest answer is no, but based on what little i know about him, he must be going through some version of on the one hand saying death before
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dishonor, i'll go down fighting, i'll go down in flames, i'll be a martyr, but say what you want about moammar gadhafi, a very strange and dangerous man, but he cares about his family. he's got to be worried about his family. i would think on the one hand it's fight to the finish, never give in, whatever it takes, on the other hand maybe just maybe i can get away to russia and negotiate some way that my family will be taken care of. he must be struggling with that or have been struggling with that in the last 24 hours. you said something earlier, this situation has not resolved. it's a great moment. the regime has fallen, but the question, and i think it's a question in the viewer's mind, what now, what next? answer, we don't know and the libyans themselves don't know. >> the transitional government has been internationally recognized by the united states in mid-july, recognized by egypt yesterday upon present circumstances.
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do we know enough about them to know whether or not they can credibly form a government? forming a government anywhere where there's been a dictatorship is hard because the institutions have been so contingent on the autocratic will of one man. >> i don't think the people of libya -- credit cannot be given to them, but i don't think they know. it may be, unscrewing the word -- under scoring the word "may," it may be they'll need some help in making a transition, say the european you know under the u.n. and with the help of arab league and the african union could help them through the transition period. because keep in mind, unlike egypt, unlike iraq, libya has no institutions, has no governmental infrastructure other than gadhafi. gadhafi is not gone as far as we
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know yet, but his regime is gone, so there's a prospect of chaos, great disorder, libya is a sparsely populated country, size of arizona but only has about six and a half million people. they are going to need some help and i'm not sure the european union working under the u.n. could help, but something like that. help from the united states, yes, will continue to be necessary. particularly humanitarian aide. in a situation like this, for example, what happens to the electricity, what happens to garbage collection and the day-to-day things that people expect to keep going. it's going to be difficult to keep going without american help and help of others. by the way, we have spent in libya, over the last six months, 1.1 billion dlds over the last six months. that's military and everything. my suspicion is it costs a whole lot more than that because we've used mercenary help and contractors and that sort of thing, but that cost $1.1 billion over the last six months is what we spend in a day in iraq or afghanistan.
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>> it's incredible. what you were talking about institutions and people depending on institutions for their daily life to avoid dissatisfaction in order to just live, that's behind why the u.s. government has been stressing so much that the institutions that do exist shouldn't be torn down. they should be protected. they are not just talking about looting. they are talking about keep the traffic cops, as it were, keep the traffic top cops on the corner. >> exactly. as we learned in iraq, electricity is so important. if electricity doesn't get supplied big trouble. a head. but let's be optimistic, because this is a big moment to be optimistic. there is an old song that janis joplin used to sing one line is "treatment's just another word for nothing left to lose." up until now the rebels have had nothing to lose. it is now or never and nothing to lose.
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today they have a lot to lose and that would be their future. so much depends on this long and bound to be turbulent transition period. >> dan rather reports. he will be hosting a dan rather remembers on september 11th 11th on hdnet. always an honor to have you here. >> thank you so much. more ahead. including the virtually unknown and frankly rather shocking fact about this helicopter in the war that may or may not be ending tonight in libya. to make science as exciting as a video game. i need to reach peter, who's falling behind. and push janet who's 6 chapters ahead. ♪ [ male announcer ] with interactive learning solutions from dell, mrs. davis can make education a little more personal. so every student feels like her only student. dell. the power to do more.
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among the most memorable and frankly sort of perplexing news reports out of these past five month ins libya were reports by richard engel as the rebels as essentially the gang that couldn't shoot straight. >> we have light weapons, he has tanks, complained one man. another rebel showed me he isn't actually armed at all. >> it's a toy gun. this is amazing. he just handed me his gun. i didn't realize until he put it in my hand. it is made of plastic. it's a toy. on the front line we saw some rebels try to fire a mortar without securing it so it went in the wrong direction and i couldn't belief it. we saw them aim a rocket we thought at gadhafi forces but it was pointed the wrong way and went in the opposite direction toward a civilian city and they fired a rocket in the wrong direction. >> it is those forces, the kids with the plastic gun and the guy
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aiming the rocket in the wrong direction, that five months in to the fight seem to be on the the precipice of prevailing. what happens next in tripoli and around think country is not clear but how we got here is a combination of libyan civilians fighting it out inch by inch on the ground and 20,000 alternate air sorties. 18 country, 13 dozen troops, not a on the ground. tomahawk missiles, constant air surveillance, mostly by the u.s. and air drones. it is not an american led war but a multilateral mission. drones, but in no way was this an american-led war, it's been a multi-lateral support mission for a libyan ground war, one in which the sole nato causality was an unmanned helicopter shot down in libya. unmanned as in no pilot. joining us now, steve clemmons, you can find him writing at the note and the atlantic magazine. thank you for joining us tonight. >> sure thing, rachel.
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>> you were skeptical from the beginning about whether or not outside countries getting involved militarily in libya would produce a positive outcome. you worried the western footprint is too large and this needs to be the libyan people who take control of their own destiny. now, with what is going on in tripoli tonight, was that footprint too large? is this ending as a libyan outcome? how do you feel about this? >> i think president obama watched your show. and he created an intervention that actually, despite the sorties and the various kinds of presence we had, he nonetheless kept the intervention from becoming a slippery slope to a deeper, broader ownership of the outcome. to build on the theme of tonight's show he had a tipping point strategy to tilt the odds toward the rebels, given what they were facing. but this could have gone badly. and we didn't own the outcome. if you listen to president obama's remarks tonight, he
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ended them exactly with where we were talking before, that had to be a libyan story, their control and we had to be supportive but on the periphery of things and i think that's the right tone. >> i'm cognizant thont is not over. we had a live report that said the rebels claim they control 90% of the city should be viewed with skepticism that there are a lot of pro gadhafi forces left and fighting inside of tripoli. if this does continue to tip, if this does not turn in to a long, protracted battle in tripoli, what do you expect next from this new transitional, would be post gadhafi government? >> i think one of the key things, and the change in the status quo, is the troops and the villages in the mountains of the west came down and basically closed off gadhafi's western flank. i think that put tripoli in a vice.
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whatever may happen and it could be bloody and we may not get the straight information that we would like to get. nonetheless, i think we are seeing the end of the gadhafi regime. that means that benghazi crowd have to find a new heros of the revolution that helped out elsewhere and to not only create tribal balance and inclusion but to deal with the many pocket of reassistance that came together to bring down this regime. that will be a complicated affair. when dan rather was speaking about water and infrastructure and waste collection, the government in benghazi has done a very good job of creating a model where people in their provisional councils have functional responsibility, looking at those issues. they have been simulating the last couple of months what a successor government to the gadhafi regime may look like. that doesn't mean it will be easy, but i think it is impressive to see what they have put in chase. >> steve clem mondays from the new america foundation.
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hi blog is the washington note. thank you so much. looking forward to talking about this. appreciate it. >> thank you, rachel. joining us is professor at the university of michigan and author of engaging the muslim world. professor cole, nice to see you tonight. >> thank you for having me on. >> i know you have been in egypt and around the region this summer. do you think the involvement of alternate in this makes it a complicated outcome when this ends or is this relatively uncomplicated way the libyian's own uprising. >> the involvement of alternate was controversial. there were some groups like the muslim party in ton neez dwra said we are with the rubbles but can't support an effort where alternate is involved. i think there are minority voices. i think most people in the region, in egypt and tunisia
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were happy to see someone rescue the revolutionaries from being bombed to death. and i think that the way that this ended, with the uprising in the capital, you know puts a libyan stamp on the whole thing pretty firmly. >> i don't know if things are happening in the region like come mows, if that metaphor is appropriate, if they are this domino took five months to fall, with a lot of people saying it never would. do you think it has wider repercussions, syria, egypt, libya? is syria more worried today? >> absolutely. they are petrified by what happened in libya and has been attempting to down play it. we have had three long-serving dictators fall this year. the rulers in the region are on
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notice that their people can rise up against them and get rid of them. the leaders are scrambling to find a response. in syria, they have gone the gadhafi route. they have started to roll tanks against the demonstrators. in morocco and jordan, they have started to announce baby steps toward constitutional monarchy, but the region is being shaken up by these revolts. >> juan, one of the things that is relatively unremarked upon when we talk about international involvement here is how involved the arab nations of qatar and the united arab emirates were in this intervention. how important was it strategically and also in terms of the political impact here? >> yes. well, with regard to image, it was important this intervention in libya not be seen in the region as solely a western one. i think it wasn't. it should be remembered that turkey is a alternate member. and it's a major muslim country
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of over 70 million. it did play an important role in libya. like wise, as you say, in the arab league, the most active members, with regard to the intervention were qatar and the united arab emirates. qatar supplied aid and flew missions. so it is very important. >> juan cole, professor of history at the university ofmy michigan. juan, your post today about ten myths about the libya war is required reading for everybody within the sound of my voice. thank you for doing that and making time to join us tonight. appreciate it. all right. if you have any doubt why there has been quite a bit of jubilation in libya the past couple of days, we are a good reminder on tape of why out of all of the dastardly dictators in the world, libya's dictator was a particularly dastardly
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texas governor rick perry launched his presidential campaign in south carolina just over a week ago on a saturday, so this is rick perry, republican presidential candidate, day one. the next day, mr. perry, being a presidential candidate, of course, went to iowa. this is rick perry, presidential candidate day two. he's answering a question about social security here. >> let the whole, the whole issue of -- have you read my book, "fed up!"? get a copy of it, read it. it is, because i talk about the entitlement programs in there. >> have you read my book, "fed up!"? governor perry released the book called'"fed up!" november nine months ago. it was noent introduce him on the national political stage. it is one of the hints he might be running for president this year. and if you want to know what the this about entitlement programs
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there, it will give you an earful or eyeful, whatever. "certain programs massively altered the relationship between americans and their government, violently tossing aside any respect principal approximatelies. by far the best example of this is social security. social security, rick perry, is saying, "fed up!" is not just un-american, but violently un-american, and it's not just social security. that same month governor perry told "newsweek," i don't think our founding fathers were thinking about a federally-operated program of pensions, nor a federally-operated program of health care. what they clearly said are those are issues the state needs to address. not the federal government. i stand clear on that. very clear. social security and medicare are unconstitutional in rick perry's america. but in the rest of america,
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social security and medicare are what you might call very popular. the kind of government programs people are willing to stand out on the street in ports smith, new hampshire so they can yell at rick perry you better keep your hands off of them. they called mr. perry a threat to america. when one of them challenged him about the stand, he reportedly, according to abc news, took a giant bite out of a popover and said he couldn't answer because he had a big mouthful. now he is trying another approach. his campaign has started to disavow the things he said about social security and medicare in his book." fed up." he said these things, he wrote them down. they are in print but he didn't mean them. a spokesman said although perry's book seems bound to dog him on the campaign trail we should get over it. it is supposed to be a look back, not a path forward.
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it is a review and critique of federal excesses, not in any way as a 2012 campaign blueprint or manifesto. it's a review, a critique, an chent history this fed up book thing. somebody needs to tell rick perry that. . >> have you read my book "fed up"! get a copy of it. read it. >> former rnc chairman michael steele is joining us next. as luxury s.u.v.s, it helps to have the quality and craftsmanship of your leather interior test better than the lexus rx 350. it's also helpful to set your "select terrain" dial to "sand." ♪
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look, the whole issue of -- have you read my book "fed up!" get a copy of it and read it. it is because i talk about the entitlement programs in there. >> rick perry, the person, says you can find his positions in here, on entitlement programs. his campaign today said nothing in here about entitlement programs should be taken as what he believes anymore. the book is, after all, a fowl full nine months old. joining us is michael steele, former chair of the republican party and msnbc contribute er. >> you teed this up nicely. good to be back with you. >> good to see you, particularly given this news. >> yeah. >> rick perry said we should read his book for answers about entitlement and his campaign is
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saying it has nothing to do with his real position. >> rock and a sticky place. >> is in the way we should expect him to operate? or is this a screw up? >> i wouldn't say even a screw up. it is caught flat footed. nine months in politics is a long time. not making excuses but that is generally how the campaigns are. you lock and load and then go. >> he brings it up. so he hasn't forgotten it is in there. >> he is used to what he has written. he is not going to say i can't believe what i wrote at the time. i think they are trying to fin necessary the answer in a way that doesn't come off as if he is anti-these programs and he wants to abolish and get rid of them this is the wonderful hype from the left of what republicans think. >> if you say it is unconstitutional, unless you are proposing that america become a different country that doesn't
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have a constitution, you are proposing getting rid of it. >> i don't know if he said it is unconstitutional. i think he referred to the question of the constitutionality. >> yeah, i know. >> not buying that one, either. >> no, sorry. >> let me ask you what you think of rick perry's chances? >> i think they are good. i think there's a lot of trail cob covered on this campaign. we are hearing telltale signs that others may be getting in this thing, whether pataki or palin. there is movement here. i think the field is pretty much set. i think you will see elbow room clearing here. as we saw this past weekend with mr. huntsman. who i think did the smackdown on the team he's running with. >> democrats are excited about that. >> of course they are. >> somebody is finally telling the truth. >> that is like in the obama clinton race. people on our side were happy with some of the stuff going
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back and forth. that's what is give and take. >> i think you think what huntsman says resonates with republicans. >> i think it does and that will be the test for him at the debate in california at the reagan library with those gentlemen and miss bachmann on the stage. if he keeps that tone and doesn't pull a pawlenty when confronted with the people he's talking about, going, well, my bad. i'm out. >> i have to say it to your face? >> really, you are here. i don't think that that is going to be the case, though. i think he made a conscious decision to really draw a bright line. he sounded as if he was a republican who was fed up with the party pulling itself in a direction where the american people aren't right now. and so we'll see how this works, particularly given that you are talking about a conservative base that goes to the poll. in a number states, they have some open primary states that could make a big difference. if huntsman survives the first
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four states and gets in to florida, whole different ball game. >> he could self finance. >> absolutely. >> we got some news tonight that george pataki, who you mentioned, is going to be -- america is scooting to the edge of their chairs, polk county gop picnic, polk county new york on saturday. i think it is polk county, new york. he will be attending on saturday and local republicans say there may be a major announcement there. do you think they are waiting for george pataki? >> could be 0. i don't know. we have been waiting for a lot of folks apparently. >> but george -- >> let's stop the waiting. whoever is in is in and do your thing, run. make your argument to the american people for goodness sake and stop the dog and pony nonsense about entering the race. it is september for goodness sake. >> the question is iowa. >> iowa is even more telling. >> what would he be doing there
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other than that. >> but he has an aura of moderation and unheadline worthiness. he is more tim pawlenty than tim pawlenty. >> he is a solid guy on a number of issues that are important to the party particularly on the fiscal side. he ran the state well. everybody has those oranges that you can pull out from time to time that don't look or smell right, but the reality is by and large he's done well. the question is how does the base take him? and how will he be perceived entering the race now? is palin still out there? who knows. don't know. and what kind of traction he can get on the heels of rick perry. because that will be an immediate comparison and on the heels of a huntsman. >> he would love it to be compared with -- he's the sweet spot between jon huntman and tim pawlenty. >> you took the words out of my mouth. >> which is not a very sweet spot. michael steele, this is not a
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very pro republican discussions, i have to say but you perried very well on this. >> >> i was offensive. >> really? >> on guard. >> that's right. >> at this crucial point in libya's history, guess which american would say something like "all of those rebels will be richer than the people in this country because they are going to take all of the oil?" the ed show gets to the weird overlap between donald trump and foreign policy. that is coming up after this show and we look back at the long, strange, scary rejiem of gadhafi in his own worsd on tape. we will never see his like again if we are lucky. stay tuned for that. [ male announcer ] before you take it on your road trip... we take it on ours. this summer put your family in an exceptionally engineered mercedes-benz now for an exceptional price during the summer event.
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that's good for our country's energy security and our economy. and so too is the summer event. now get an incredible offer on the powerful c300 sport sedan. but hurry before this opportunity...disappears. the mercedes-benz summer event ends august 31st. driven by gadhafi's refusal to
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respect the rights of his people and the potential for mass murder of innocent civilians. just yesterday, speaking in the city of benghazi, a city of roughly 700,000 people, he threatened, and i quote "we will have no mercy and no pity." no mercy on his own citizens. today, i authorized the armed forces the of united states to begin a limited military action in libya in support of an international effort to protect libyan civilians. we cannot stand idly by when a tyrant tells his people that there will be no mercy. >> to protect libyan civilians. that was the stated rationale behind the last five months of the u.s. participating in military action in libya. it was not to depose moammar gadhafi after 42 years in power, not to liberate the rebels but to protect libyan civilians. moammar gadhafi said they would
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be in imminent massacre. they authorized all necessary measures to protect civilian answer the u.s. and alternate started to bomb libya because moammar gadhafi specifically promising a bloodbath in benghazi. >> prepare yourself fortonight. the traitors, there will be no mercy, no compassion. we'll tumble walls on top of you. wall to wall. >> after that initial threat about benghazi, gadhafi made it clear throughout this year just what he thought of his fellow countrymen as they rebebled against his regime. translator: come out of your homes. they don't represent anything. they were given ordered. these are cockroaches. al qaeda, al qaeda, yes. >> put on the libyan channel you
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son of gods, you cowards you crusaders. put on the libyan channels you traitors. you servants of the crusaders. this is rejected. where are you going to hell fire. you traitors, you dirty people who made filthy. you go to mosques and make coals you senseless dogs. you go to mosque and unpurify them. you filthy people. >> the leader describing and discussing and talking to his own people. we are told his compound is surround by rebel troops. his whereabouts are unknown as are the locations of his sons. libyan opposition said earlier today it had two of his sons in custody, including saif, his heir apparent who was reportedly arrested while trying to flee

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